Tauira Emma Barnes-Wetere and Mila Pivac Solomon have a Q&A style interview with academic, activist and Ngā Rangahautira alumni, Eru Kapa-Kingi.

Emma: I’ve seen that you’ve spoken before about being influenced by people like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr, and Dame Whina Cooper, and the difference between being a politician and being political. What was it about their stories - or their style of activism - that resonated with you? 

“What I suppose I see as a purpose that I live in is re-expanding our imaginations and our thoughts when it comes to what it means to be political, and I think that through the process of colonisation in Aotearoa many terrible things have happened to us, including the restriction of our view of what political structures and political existence look like and feel like, and how we can participate politically. I think the mainstream has severely restricted the idea of political participation to things that happen in Wellington in a big ugly building, and that you have to have certain job titles to consider yourself a political actor or political bastion for your people. I strongly believe that Māori politics is unique and distinct unto itself, and it overlaps in a lot of ways with other indigenous forms of politics around the world. It’s based on collective being and collective wellness, and it's embedded in the kōrero of my tūpuna Merengaroto: He aha te mea nui o tēnei ao? he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. Not so much gassing up humans as I think that kōrero is often misinterpreted as meaning, but what my tūpuna meant when she said that was in the context of her learning of her inability to bear children. So, to me, I interpret her kōrero about “he tangata” as encapsulating the importance of relationships, connections and our generational continuity as a people. And then coming back to political actors that I’ve looked up to, Dame Whina Cooper, Papa Moana Jackson, Martin Luther King, Malcom X and other writers like James Baldwin; all of these people you could view as being unelected politicians, and I’m trying to make that cool again because a lot of people focus on running to be MPs, whatever that means.”

Emma: In other interviews you’ve mentioned the word radical and how it’s been used by others to describe you and your kaupapa. What do you think people are really saying when they use that word to describe you and the Toitū Te Tiriti movement?

“Yeah, I think essentially that’s a fair response. It's a response that comes from a place of ignorance and one not understanding the essence of our kaupapa - which is to create a better Aotearoa for all people who live here, not just Māori, which is actually what was envisaged in Te Tiriti o Waitangi by my tūpuna in 1840. It was a document of mutual benefit where settlers were given a set of rights to be able to self-determine and exist here in Aotearoa whilst our pre-existing rights and rangatiratanga, which were born from our tūpuna coming here from Hawaiki a thousand years ago and establishing themselves as tangata whenua, those were also to be protected and maintained. So there’s nothing radical actually about the Movement; the Movement is just about reaffirming what was originally intended in Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 1840. But it’s easy to radicalise indigenous truth, particularly where we as tangata whenua have been made a minority on our own whenua. It’s always going to be a numbers game as to what is true and what isn’t as opposed to accurate historical recounts. We keep saying our truth and we keep holding onto our truth. As we grow not only in numbers as te iwi Māori, but in confidence as to who we are, I think the radicalisation of our truth will fall away and start to become normal again, because it was normal not even 200 years ago on this whenua.”

Emma: You and your wife co-founded the brand Never Ceded - can you tell us what was the whakaaro behind that kaupapa, and how does it connect to your wider mahi?

“The whakapapa of the kaupapa Never Ceded is that my brothers and I were at Waitangi for Waitangi week 3 or 4 years ago, and I suppose it’s all part and parcel with this mission of re-normalising our truth that our tūpuna never ceded sovereignty in 1840. We were sitting around thinking about what would be a cool way of promoting that. It started off as one basic t-shirt and it’s developing a lot more now. My wāhine has been really busy working with new suppliers and getting new designs done. It’s all coming together, so our online shop should be up and running properly very soon with lots of stock and some new designs as well. A lot of people have embraced the kaupapa because it’s so simple but really effective too. What we say as part of the brand is to wear your truth and when it comes to activations and the hīkoi, it’s like this uniform.”

Emma: What has the experience of Toitū Te Tiriti meant for you personally? And how did it feel to witness and experience that expression of kotahitanga during the hīkoi?

“Toitū Te Tiriti had formed as a platform and had instigated some activations a year or so before the hīkoi, but the hīkoi rebirthed the movement and took it to a height it would not have been capable of doing before. It was like the merging of this kaupapa with the tūpuna blueprint of hīkoi, and it resulted in one of the biggest activations of not just Māori, but Aotearoa whānui. It was so humbling being a part of that and personally, it really confirmed for me my role and life trajectory. Probably a year before the hīkoi, you may have been able to convince me to run to be a politician as an MP in Wellington. But after the hīkoi I’ve gone the other way… that was proof right in front of me that you do not need to have a job title to influence your generation, and generations above and below. It showed me the power of us; the power of tātou, is the way that I’d describe it. I’ll never forget it and am so grateful to be alive during it.”

Emma: “If you could change anything about how Māori experience law school - what would it be? What would’ve helped you?”

“One of the biggest failings of not just Victoria University but all law schools, through my experience, was not teaching the whole truth of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I don’t know if things have changed much since I was at Victoria University, but there was a bit of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in LAWS 121, which actually just perpetuated this fallacy that Te Tiriti was all good vibes and not actually dissecting, speaking and holding space for our truth. And so that’s something that I’ve had to discover myself beyond the compulsory mainstream legal education that was provided, and it's a huge failing. I think we feel that more as a violence upon our own wairua as tauira Māori in those spaces because I went in there expecting some empowering, liberating education around Te Tiriti o Waitangi – there wasn’t. And then at that point you’re constantly having to justify your own existence and there’s nothing dignifying or mana-enhancing about that. So that I think needs to happen at all levels. Obviously the curriculum design level is important. Also, having Māori in meaningful leadership positions in these institutions; they can really pull strings and create momentum to create a safe space for tauira Māori no matter where they are or what paper they take at law school. And that’s another broader political game that I guess you as students can’t directly influence at this point, but it's a truth that you feel the implications of regardless as tauira.”

Pātai Māori

Mila: Ko wai koe? Nō hea koe?

Who are you? And where are you from?

He Kapa ahau nō Te Aupōuri, he Heke ahau nō Whangaroa, no Ngāpuhi, ka mutu, he pānga ōku ki Te Whānau Apanui me Waikato. Ko Eru Kapa-Kingi tōku ingoa. I tupu ake ki roto o Whangārei, ā, kei Tāmaki mātou ko taku whānau e noho ana. Ko taku makau, taku wahine, mātou tahi ko tā māua pēpi, ā, tokotoru mātou e noho tahi ana. He raukura hoki ahau no roto o koutou o Ngā Rangahautira.

I am a Kapa from Te Aupōuri, a Heke from Whangaroa, from Ngāpuhi, additionally I have ties to Te Whanau Apanui and Waikato. Eru Kapa-Kingi is my name. I grew up in Whangārei and my family and I currently reside in Tamaki – my wife and I as well as our baby. I am also a Ngā Rangahautira alumni.

Mila: He aha ō whakaaro mo ngā tauārai o te ao ture Pākehā me ngā pānga o ēnei ture ki a mātou te iwi Māori?

What are your thoughts on the barriers or hardships that the English common law imposes on Māori, and what the effects of such laws might be on us?

Ko te pūtake o te mate o te punaha Pākehā nei, i ahu mai ia i te teka, i ahu mai ia i te hē, i ahu mai i te pōhēhē e mea ana ko tā te Tiriti o Waitangi he tuku i te mana o ngā iwi me ngā hapū ki te Kuini o Ingarangi, karekau he utu, karekau he herenga. Ko tēnei pūnaha, i āta whai kia tāmi i te tuakiri Māori, i te reo Māori, kia unuhia i te whenua, kia taro i te whenua. I pēneitia kia whakapākehā i te Māori, kia huri i te Māori hei Pākehā.

The core issue within the English legal system is that it originated from a fabrication, from a wrongdoing, and from the mistaken assumption that iwi and hapū willingly and freely ceded sovereignty to the Queen of England through Te Tiriti o Waitangi. This system itself was designed to oppress Māori culture, Māori language, and to take our land. It was designed to assimilate Māori, to turn Māori into Pākehā.

Mila: He aha ō whakahihikotanga, ō tino kaupapa, take ranei i te ao ture, i te ao tōrangapū hoki?

What motivates you? What are your driving kaupapa or issues in the current legal and political sphere?

Ki au nei, i roto i te Ao Māori ko te ao ture, me te ao tōrangapū he ao kotahi. Ko te tirohanga Māori, kahore e āta wetewete i tēnā kaupapa, i tēnā take, i tēnā mahi – ka haere tahi ēnei mea. Ko tāku pea, he tūhono i ētahi o ngā tūwhakaaro, tūmahi, i roto i ēnei huringa kaupapa o te ture, o te tōrangapū. Kia whakaora tātou i wā tātou tōrangapū, ture, tikanga – ērā mea nō Hawaiki mai. Kua kaha tā tātou kōrero mō te Hawaiki hou, mō te Hawaiki Aotearoa. He ataahua hoki ērā kōrero, engari me pono te Hawaiiki hou – koia tonu tēra ko te Hawaiki taketake, te Hawaiki tawhito – e rua, e rua.

In my opinion, Māoridom does not focus heavily on differentiating law and politics because they are, in the Māori worldview, one and the same. My motivation, or driving kaupapa, is connecting some of the beliefs, concepts, and action in this everchanging legal and political sphere.

It’s to revitalise our politics, laws, and tikanga – those from Hawaiiki. We constantly hear about Hawaiiki hou, Hawaiiki Aotearoa. Those are beautiful concepts, however, to remain true to the concept of Hawaiiki, we must also consider Ancient Hawaiiki, Hawaiiki of old, as they are one and the same.

Te whakahoki i te mauri ora ki roto ki ngā tikanga a kui mā, a koro mā, kia hangai anō hoki ki te ao hou, ki te ao hurihuri e noho nei tātou, koia pea ko tētahi o ngā whainga nui mōku, i au e noho ana ki te mata o te whenua.

To breathe life into the tikanga of our elders, whilst also adapting those beliefs and ways of life into the new world that we currently live in, is one of my biggest goals for my time on earth.

Author: Guest Author

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